Posting this here for possible reference needs going forward.

If you haven’t been caught up in this, just file it away for another day - or never.

The most interesting part to me is the last 4 paragraphs. Sums it up nicely.

Mostly it’s a big messy distraction imho. But it’s being spread around enough that you might bump into references.

Reminds me a bit of the dilemma we’re facing with the fluidity of identity right now in other spaces tbh.

Just yesterday, in the VIP Projector only group (VIP is for “very important projector 😂) we had an interesting arrival and departure of someone who, in a typical HD chart, is a MG try to assert she’s certain she’s a Projector - because sidereal. Wouldn’t share her actual (Jovian) chart though and instead flounced out. 🙄

Such is the slippery slope called “True Sidereal”

I haven’t even been moved to investigate what mine might look like.

Here’s the long drawn out “proof” (from a Generator with an undefined ego 🙃😋)

Seriously, skip to the last four paragraphs for the actual meat unless the rest is interesting.

Made my open head spin 🤓

Jonah Dempcy wrote on 4/22/21:

“Reasons Why Human Design Doesn’t Need Sidereal Modifications

Key takeaway: The Rave Mandala shows the annual cycle that repeats identically every year. The sidereal mandala (which is also used in Human Design for Global Cycles—see below) shows the almost 26,000 year cycle of axial precession. They move against each other and only sync up once every 26,000 years. Applying the sidereal adjustment to the Rave Mandala defeats the purpose of having a second mandala (the sidereal mandala) which already exists in Human Design and is used for Global Cycle analysis. It also eliminates the possibility of yielding ANY useful information whatsoever, except by coincidence, so it’s basically identical to casting random wrong charts that have literally nothing to do with the person. You can choose any arbitrary fixed number of degrees to offset the gates by and you will end up with just as accurate—and just as inaccurate—charts.

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First, what does it mean to make a sidereal modification to the Human Design wheel, the Rave Mandala?

In Cosmic Human Design you move everything over 31º. In other systems, you use a different number of degrees, and each system has reasons why they use their calculation and not one of the competitors.

No matter what sidereal system you are using, you’re modifying the gates by a certain amount of degrees.

This offset keeps changing at the same rate for ALL sidereal systems.

That rate is around 72 years per degree. So by roughly 2093 the Cosmic Human Design system will be adjusting by around 32º, and by 2165 or whenever it will be 33º offset and so on. This is crucial to understand, because it helps to realize how the sidereal system is on a massive, massive time frame, this 26,000 year cycle of axial precession.

At any given point in the axial precession cycle, the offset of sidereal will be between 0º (identical) and 359º59’59” (nearly identical) from the annual cycle, but the asymptotic point between will be exactly opposite! And there will be every point in between those points at various times throughout the roughly 26,000 year cycle.

Analysis of the Fixed Stars
Because of this it becomes impossible to do analysis of the movement of the fixed stars against the gates. For instance, Aldebaran moving across Gate 16. Stars transit the gates because of the slow wobble. This wobble is on a roughly 26,000 year cycle. Aldebaran only passes through Gate 16 once every 26,000 years. With Sidereal mods you don’t see this. Aldebaran is just always at the same place forever.

The Gates of the G Center
In Human Design, the G Center is very special, and its gates line up to the equinoxes, solstices, and midpoints. When you decouple the gates from the ecliptic, they move on a 26,000 year cycle, and only once every so often during the 26,000 year cycle do they actually line up to the 8 equidistant divisions of the year.

The Quarters, and the Rave Mandala
The study of the Rave Mandala itself should make clear to anyone who dives deep that it would be impossible for it to refer to anything other than the annual cycle. For instance, references to some gates refer to mammalian “mating season’ as remnants from the past, which is, of course an annual season. Some of the gates are seasonal in reference talking about the darkest times of year (emotionally) and so on. It is clear that the mandala itself refers to the annual cycle, not the 26,000 year cycle.

Human Design is Post-1781 Knowledge
For the wheel to have useful information, it must be tied to the year. That way, we have people born at the same time each year being born in the same Gate, Line, Color, Tone, and Base. This is useful because then we can get feedback at the level of the annual cycle.

For a full 26,000 year cycle to have to complete, it would just not make any sense. Tying the gates to the 26,000 year cycle would make sense for elder gods, but not us.

Global Cycles
In Human Design, there is already the study of Global Cycles which is the movement of the sidereal wheel against the fixed wheel. It’s similar to the idea in ancient China of two wheels, a heavenly and earthly wheel. One is fixed, and the other moves against it. We could see the fixed wheel as the Locks of the Global Cycles, which are the 8 Gates of the G Center. Moving against it is a 2nd wheel, a 2nd Rave Mandala, and that is the Keys. Each Key moves into a Lock at a particular time determined by the axial precession cycle of 25,771 and a half years. I’ve been saying (26,000) for convenience. The Global Cycles move at such a slow pace, they really are the steps of the elder gods!

(Also, if you use the sidereal modifications, 2027 and all global cycle analysis is meaningless!)

Even Referring to HD and the Tropical Zodiac is Confusing
I’ve gone along with calling the Rave Mandala in Human Design “the tropical zodiac” because it is linked to the celestial equator, i.e. the annual cycle. However, the premise of sidereal astrology has to do with the conflation of constellations with signs. Human Design does not use constellations or signs in its analysis. The signs are included for convenience or sometimes referred to because Human Design is a competing metaphysical research program to the many other competing research programs such as Traditional Western Astrology, Hellenistic Astrology, Archetypal Astrology, Evolutionary Astrology, Vedic Astrology (Jyotisha), and on and on. For convenience and to make interesting commentary, Human Design references these other metaphysical research programs, for instance pointing out the gates of Libra being all Splenic after getting kicked off by Gate 46 in the G Center (a Global Cycle Lock Gate, as it’s on the September equinox—not the Fall equinox, mind, because it’s actually the Spring equinox in the souther hemisphere). Or, pointing out Individual Circuitry gates in Taurus. But the point remains: Human Design has never conflated constellations with signs, nor does it use either in its analysis.

Sidereal HD Came out of Conspiracy Theories
The idea that the Rave Mandala as it currently stands is locking people into a quote “lower frequency matrix,” whatever that means, is very much in line with ideas of energy harvesting and such that you find with extremist conspiracy theories. The only comment I have here is for conspiracy theorists to learn about Penta, because that’s the real conspiracy, from the Human Design perspective.

Sidereal Practices are Applied Inconsistently
Richard Mason talks about variable-width signs to better match the constellations (although again, irrelevant) while not applying this aspect of True Sidereal Astrology to his system. Maybe other sidereal systems will at least be internally consistent, but that remains to be seen, and even if so, they will simply be consistently wrong, and as such may have slightly more value than Mason’s Cosmic (neè True Sidereal) Human Design.

The Human Design Experiment Requires Observation, Not Resonance
“Harmony” or “resonance” are concepts that we explore in Human Design. The words are multivalent and rich with use in such concepts as resonance mapping, at either Design or Personality level. However, when people talk about if a reading “resonates” with them or not, what they are often talking about is how much they can recognize themselves in it. Lacan is really the best here. Understanding his theory of recognition, which he claims is also always misrecognition, is very helpful in understanding the difference between observation and recognizing oneself in a description. Sidereal approaches rely on recognition rather than observation, and thus have nothing to do with the Human Design experiment. Look, if you wanna do the sidereal experiment, be my guest, but don’t pretend you’re doing Human Design. Gene Keys doesn’t pretend to be Human Design. 


Human Design is a Practice, like Psychoanalysis
When Jacques Siboni was asked, how long will I be in psychoanalysis for, he replied, do you ask your tennis instructor how long you might be learning tennis? The Human Design System, while young, is nevertheless a metaphysical research program that has been undertaken as a practice by an incredibly mutative group of freaks and geniuses. To ignore the actual practitioners of this system, or even more, to imply that they are trapped in a “lower vibrational matrix” while their energy is being harvested, and by making certain arbitrary adjustments to the system they can “evolve” and become “higher vibrational beings” is simply rude.

The Major Proponent of Sidereal Modifications Does Not Understand What He’s Proposing
Richard Mason literally does not understand the system he is talking about, like when I explained to him how fixed stars will always be at the exact same position in a sidereal addressing system, whereas in the Human Design System they move across the gates (see above). He continued to say that he was not sure if what I was saying was true or not, when it is a fundamental premise of his system. I wasn’t making a new claim, I was stating a fundamental premise of his very system and he had no idea whether his system was making that claim or not. That’s bad. When a creator of a system doesn’t understand what that system is actually saying—what ontological commitments, what fundamental assumptions it must make—and you take the time to patiently explain to them exactly how their own system works, and they still don’t get it, it’s bad. Charles Babbage: On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.


Where IS Sidereal Useful in HD?
In Global Cycle analysis of the Keys (sidereal mandala) moving against the Locks (Rave Mandala) such that each era has specific keys for unlocking the perennial aspects of humanity’s love, identity, and direction.”